Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/12/2002 09:57 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 244(L&C)                                                                                            
     "An Act extending the termination date of the Board of                                                                     
      Examiners in Optometry; and relating to optometrists."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the first  hearing  for this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brakes  explained this committee  substitute provides  for a new                                                            
termination  date  for the  Board  of Optometrists  and  allows  for                                                            
statutory changes  to enable the Board to "more effectively  license                                                            
by credential,  update continuing education requirements"  and bring                                                            
the requirements in line  with current practice and regulations. She                                                            
detailed some  of the changes such  as the replacement of  the state                                                            
tactical  exam with the  National Board of  Examiners and  Optometry                                                            
examination.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brakes referred to  the Division of Legislative Budget and Audit                                                            
report  on the issue  [copy on  file] which  supports the  extension                                                            
date  proposed for  the  Board. She  referenced  page  seven of  the                                                            
report which details the  findings and recommendations of the audit.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brakes  noted  that page  15 of  the audit  report contains  the                                                            
Department  of Community and Economic  Development' response  to the                                                            
audit recommendations.  She informed  that SB 244 was drafted  based                                                            
on the findings and recommendations of the audit.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green  noted that the original  bill included a requirement                                                             
that the  applicants  submit a  photograph with  their application;                                                             
however that requirement  was omitted from the committee substitute.                                                            
She asked for clarification about this change.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Brakes   responded  on   page  seven   of  the  audit   report,                                                            
Recommendation  No. 1 recommends the  Board rescind the application                                                             
requirement of  requiring a photograph of the applicant.  She stated                                                            
the drafters attempted  to draft the legislation based  on the audit                                                            
recommendations,  and, as the sponsor,  "we wanted to put  those out                                                            
on  the table  for  discussion  and to  let  that work  through  the                                                            
Committee  process."  She  noted   the Senate   Labor  and  Commerce                                                            
Committee  reinstates   the  photograph  requirement;   however,  it                                                            
specifies  photographs  are not  permitted  to be  forwarded to  the                                                            
Board at time of licensure.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if  the photograph requirement is typical of all                                                            
licenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CATHERINE  REARDON, Director,  Division of  Occupational  Licensing,                                                            
Department of Community  and Economic Development responded that the                                                            
Department "looked through  all of the programs, as a result of this                                                            
issue  coming  up. Approximately   two-thirds  of the  38  licensing                                                            
programs do  require photographs with  the application; however,  in                                                            
most  of those  instances,  it is  not  because of  a  statute or  a                                                            
regulation that requires  it, but a board policy." She continued the                                                            
requirement  is on  the application  form  which was  approved  by a                                                            
Board.  She  continued  that  this  particular   wording  stating  a                                                            
photograph should  be submitted, but would not be  "forwarded to the                                                            
Board during the application process, is unique to this bill."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green inquired as to the purpose of the photograph.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon responded the  photograph is included in the file and is                                                            
used   for  identification   purposes.   She  qualified   that   the                                                            
application is signed and  notarized; however there are instances in                                                            
which "people  do try to pass themselves  off as other people."  She                                                            
continued that  some boards view having the photograph  as "useful."                                                            
She noted that  photo identification is useful at  exam check-in, to                                                            
make sure that  a "ringer" is not  taking the test for the  "correct                                                            
person."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if  the photograph is used for the issuance of a                                                            
state  of  Alaska  photo  identification   card  when  a  person  is                                                            
licensed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Reardon  responded  that  the  Department   only  issues  paper                                                            
licenses   printed  on  a   laser  printer   that  do  not   contain                                                            
photographs.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Ward inquired  as to "how  many ringers  have been  used to                                                            
take tests."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon  responded she "is not  aware of that happening"  during                                                            
the seven  years she  has been  with the Department.  She  continued                                                            
that "very  rarely, if at all" can  that Department prove  that this                                                            
has occurred. She continued  that on the national level, there is "a                                                            
lot of concern  about that, particularly  with the big professional                                                             
exams," such as  engineering. She noted there has  been "an instance                                                            
in Alaska  in the last two  years where a  nurse applicant  tried to                                                            
pass herself off as an  entirely different person." She detailed how                                                            
this  person  "was  caught"  during  the  application  process.  She                                                            
informed that "strange things" do happen.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green  asked if "we expect this language to  start appearing                                                            
in all licensure  and renewals" for these various  licenses or would                                                            
this be better addressed in a separate statute.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon  responded the  photograph requirement  is addressed  in                                                            
this particular  bill because of the audit recommendation  to remove                                                            
"the board's  ability to  require photographs."  She stated  this is                                                            
"not an effort  to add photographs to the process,  it is a reaction                                                            
to the  recommendation that  the ability  to require photographs  be                                                            
removed." She  stated "there was discussion in the  Senate Labor and                                                            
Commerce Committee about whether that was a good idea."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon summarized  the language in the committee  substitute is                                                            
perhaps, "a compromise."   She continued, "the recommendation to not                                                            
require a photograph  was to eliminate  a potential opportunity  for                                                            
discrimination  based on the photograph."  She continued  "there was                                                            
some debate about whether  it was necessary, whether that really was                                                            
a significant  risk," and this language is "a way  of coming up with                                                            
protecting  against discrimination  while retaining  the ability  to                                                            
ask for photographs."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked  if  the  Division   is  in  favor  of  having                                                            
photographs.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon  responded that  the Division  supports the position  of                                                            
the  Boards and  "if a  board  feels this  is important,"  then  the                                                            
Division would  support "obtaining  the photographs" for  them." She                                                            
voiced  support  for not  submitting  the  photograph  to the  Board                                                            
during the application  review process as the current bill describes                                                            
"to eliminate anyone's concern that that might be influential."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked if "there have been any complaints  by minority                                                            
groups  that  they  have  been  discriminated  against  through  the                                                            
application period."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon responded she was not aware of any complaints.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly stated  that one  of the  reasons not  to include  a                                                            
photograph  is just  a "general  sense" that  the Board  may make  a                                                            
decision based on a photograph.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  spoke of his experience  as a member of the  Board of                                                            
Optometrists  and stated it was "quite  helpful" to have  photograph                                                            
as it made it  easier to identify a person and easier  to recall the                                                            
person if  their name came  up at a later  proceeding. He stated  he                                                            
"did not necessarily agree with the findings of the audit."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Ward asked if the  Board could make a decision as to whether                                                            
a photograph would be required.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon commented  "boards review the application  forms" so she                                                            
would "look to boards for direction."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Ward clarified  that if Board did not require  a photograph,                                                            
the Department would not object.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon concurred.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Ward clarified  that if Board  did want  a photograph  that                                                            
also would be fine with the Department.                                                                                         
Ms. Reardon  concurred, stating "as  long as it was not contrary  to                                                            
statute."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Leman   voiced   he  did   not   agree  with   the   audit                                                            
recommendation, and he  believes it is important to have photographs                                                            
on file. He stated  that the terrorist events of September  11, 2001                                                            
make him "realize  what some people  will go through to defraud  and                                                            
harm  other  people."  He opined  that  requiring  a  photograph  is                                                            
appropriate.  He continued "this language  is not necessary  because                                                            
the  policy of  division has  been to  do this  and if  that is  the                                                            
boards policy  they can continue to do that." He does  not foresee a                                                            
"problem  with discrimination"  as these people  will interact  with                                                            
other professionals and the public in their profession.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Green  stated  the  current  language  takes  the  decision                                                            
whether to  require photographs away  from the Board and  perhaps it                                                            
would be more appropriate to let the Board make that decision.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly asked "if  it is not the statute  to let Board  deal                                                            
with this anyway."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon  replied the  current statute  language authorizes  such                                                            
discretion  to the  Board. She  suggested changing  the language  to                                                            
clarify that  the Board and not the  Department make this  decision.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #1: This amendment  changes the wording in Section 2, line                                                            
11 to reflect  "the board may require.." instead of  "the Department                                                            
may require…"                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly reiterated the change.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment #1 was approved.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman asked if  the Committee should address this photograph                                                            
issue through statute instead  of through Board policy. He suggested                                                            
removing  a portion of  Section 2  from the bill.  He discussed  the                                                            
normal application process.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon clarified that  photographs are handled varies among the                                                            
boards.  She  detailed  that  some  boards  require  photographs  at                                                            
different  stages of the  application process.  She stated  that the                                                            
Optometrist  Board has not been viewing  the photographs  during the                                                            
application process.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green  stated this language  should be addressed  throughout                                                            
all licensure boards.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Green suggested  statutory  language  could  be enacted  to                                                            
leave  the  photograph  requirement  up  to the  discretion  of  all                                                            
boards.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Reardon  informed that  the Department  does have a statute,  AS                                                            
08.01. under which something of this nature could be addressed.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly acknowledged  this change could be done in this bill,                                                            
and then addressed in a  "more generalized statute" at a later date.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Amendment  #2: This  amendment deletes  Section 2  of the  committee                                                            
substitute in its entirety.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Leman moved  for  adoption.  He stated  if  Section 2  were                                                            
deleted, there would be no change to existing practice.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being no objections, Amendment #2 was ADOPTED.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Leman offered  a  motion to  report  CS SB  244 (FIN),  22-                                                            
LS1267\J with  a prior $17,700 Department of Community  and Economic                                                            
Development fiscal note from Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Without objection, the bill MOVED from Committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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